ebarrelracing.com forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mandilou on July 15, 2011, 12:07:47 PM
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My husband just went to the feed store and called me to tell me that Safechoice is soon to go up in price to $18/bag! That's a big jump from 12 to 18 all at once! Anyone else heard this?
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It went up from $12 to $15 around here about 6 months ago. That's why I quit feeding it. I'm now feeding a locally milled pellet that is comparable to Safechoice and only costs me $9.75. Golden Oak Horseman's Pellets milled in DeLeon.
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Wow, feed is getting crazy. And I can't get anything in my dang barn sold...so I've got 9 to feed! Ouch. Definitley can't pay that for feed. I started feeding Safechoice back when I had a horse with a lot of stomach issues going on, but I don't have him anymore so I think it's time to start shopping around for something comparable but cheaper. It's too dang hot to rodeo and I'm too dang broke anyways, so as long as they stay healthy and hold their weight I think they can go to a cheaper feed.
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Mine are doing great on the Horseman's Pellets. They never skipped a beat when I changed them over. You can google Golden Oak Feeds to see if there is a distributor in your area.
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i've been paying $14.40 per bag for Safe Choice, but if it goes up any more i will have to find an alternative Nutrena feed .
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Same here as all ya'll - just won't pay that price for SafeChoice.
i switched to Nutrena's 12/8 Hi Fat. I am feeding less and my guys look and feel great. I pay $10.65/bag with a $0.20 discount.
I'm gonna tell ya'll what my secret weapon is tho. Chaffhaye - I call it "drunk alfalfa". I feed half a flake or more of it in the evening and only a handful of feed. My guys each get about a half scoop of feed in the mornings only. I started feeding it as a treat to see if they would eat it and of course they did. I was so concerned about the hay situation, that I figgered i'd better have a plan - this stuff is $12.50 for 50# bag (about 15 flakes/bag).
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that is good to know I had been thinking about using it this winter do you feed more of the hay in the winter?
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I feed two flakes Coastal morning and night. If it's really cold, they get three flakes each, but i hate to do that cuz if they're not drinking cuz the water's cold they could get into trouble. why would you limit it to winter?
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Thank goodness my dad has a 6 acre coastal patch. We baled this wk and got 140 bales off of it. My dad lets us keep the hay as long as we pay the cost of baling and caring for it. He asked me if I wanted to sell any of it this cutting, usually we sell one round bale cutting then keep one, then sell one square bale cutting and keep one. But I told him heck no, not this year!! I'm keeping it all! My husband and I were out there picking up those 140 bales as soon as the tractor man pulled out. We had 2 square bales left in the barn before we cut, so it was a huge sigh of relief.
What is Chaffhaye? I wanted to start feeding a little alfalfa, but with 9 horses I'm spending all I can spend just feeding and shoeing them. I'm trying to get down to 6 horses, so maybe once a few have sold I'll look into it.
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my horses wont eat safe choice
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gunnerrunner - I had one that wouldn't either. That was about the time I woke up and realized how much i was paying for it.
Mandilou - Chaffhaye is fermented alfalfa. Just google it to see if its available in yr area - try some samples like I did at first - now my guys inhale it. It's cheaper than plain alfalfa.
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was just wondering how much chaffhaye you would feed during the winter I would not limit it was trying to see how much I would need to buy
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Safechoice was $15.99 at Tractor Supply today.
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I quit feeding Safechoice 2 years ago because it just kept going up. Glad I did and never looked back.
I feed Excel made by Buzbees here in Waco.
I have to say it was $7.45 when I first started feeding it two plus years ago.
The last I bought was $10.00
If the economy doesn't get better and fuel prices keep going up I think we will see all feed prices continue to go up.
Thank you Mr. President and our ever screwed up Congress.
Can't wait to see what you bring us in the future.
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several years ago, we switched everything we have (colts on up to 35 yrs old) to Bryant Grain's EE Plus .. its a pellet and their version of Strategy. We also mix alfalfa pellets with it and our horses have, by far, done the best on this. The EE+ will run around $10.50 a bag, depending on where you get it. Once a week, I make a trip to the actual mill or to Horseman Supply in Weatherford and grab it. We also feed their dog food. We are very happy with Bryant Grain
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LBRUNE I HOPE TO THE LORD WE DON'T SEE EITHER OF THEM BEFORE TOO LONG.#^&&^%$%$@#$%^%^ WARS >:(
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Mel, where can I call to see if they feed this in my area???? Safechoice was, as Haley said, $15.99 at TSC last time I bought it. I buy 9 bags a month and it's getting out of hand for sure.
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Well,never mind just read on and saw what to google.
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I quit feeding Safechoice 2 years ago because it just kept going up. Glad I did and never looked back.
I feed Excel made by Buzbees here in Waco.
I have to say it was $7.45 when I first started feeding it two plus years ago.
The last I bought was $10.00
If the economy doesn't get better and fuel prices keep going up I think we will see all feed prices continue to go up.
Thank you Mr. President and our ever screwed up Congress.
Can't wait to see what you bring us in the future.
If they'd do away with that stupid biofuel program...Gas would be cheaper, we'd get better gas mileage, groceries and feed might return to normal pricing levels because the corn would be available again.
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I have been feeding Stock & Stable pellet for the last 9 months and my horses are doing great on it.They look excellent and feel good.Not hot, but have plenty of energy.We only ride them once in a while now and just trail ride now. So I switched them to this.You can also give this to any livestock you have which is nice.Comes in pellet or sweet feed.I was paying 8.25 a bag, now it went up to $9.15 a bag. I use to feed stradegy but got to expensive.
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we fed safe choice, then i switched to Bryant E E Plus,, the same exactly as safe choice.. it is 10.25 a bag here. In springtown they have 12/8 pellet on sale for 8.95 a bag.. the exact same as bryant and safe choice, but highter in fAt content by 1%.
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It went up from $12 to $15 around here about 6 months ago. That's why I quit feeding it. I'm now feeding a locally milled pellet that is comparable to Safechoice and only costs me $9.75. Golden Oak Horseman's Pellets milled in DeLeon.
Have been feeding Horsemans Pellets for over a year now and the horses love it. It started out at around $7.75/bag but every time I go buy it which is about ever 3 weeks (25bags) it goes up. Just bought some on Thursday and paid $10.24/bag. Checked with other feed stores that carry it also and they are all higher ($10.65 and $11.25) so I will stick with where I am getting it. Just don't know how much longer I can keep feeding it if it keeps going up cause I am feeding 10 head.
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It went up from $12 to $15 around here about 6 months ago. That's why I quit feeding it. I'm now feeding a locally milled pellet that is comparable to Safechoice and only costs me $9.75. Golden Oak Horseman's Pellets milled in DeLeon.
Have been feeding Horsemans Pellets for over a year now and the horses love it. It started out at around $7.75/bag but every time I go buy it which is about ever 3 weeks (25bags) it goes up. Just bought some on Thursday and paid $10.24/bag. Checked with other feed stores that carry it also and they are all higher ($10.65 and $11.25) so I will stick with where I am getting it. Just don't know how much longer I can keep feeding it if it keeps going up cause I am feeding 10 head.
I bought some today at Taylor Feed in Stephenville for $9.75
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I think all feed prices are going up, up, up. I am feeding Patriot at $11.45 a bag, and my daughter has one show lamb and another coming the end of the week. Feeding them a different feed than last year as last year from June until Feb the feed was $15.75 a bag, already up to over $18 a bag so the person we are getting the 2nd lamb from recommended a feed from back west and I found it here at $13.00 a bag (for now).
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I think all feed prices are going up, up, up. I am feeding Patriot at $11.45 a bag, and my daughter has one show lamb and another coming the end of the week. Feeding them a different feed than last year as last year from June until Feb the feed was $15.75 a bag, already up to over $18 a bag so the person we are getting the 2nd lamb from recommended a feed from back west and I found it here at $13.00 a bag (for now).
I feed Patriot by Moorman's too. I switched to it 2 or 3 years ago after doing some research when a couple of my horses stopped eating the Safe Choice. I found out that Patriot is a "fixed formula" which means you always get the same quality of feed all year. I like that! Plus it's cheaper than Safe Choice. I compared the ingredients between the two and they are very comparable. I also like that Patriot has the Moorman's minerals in it.
Mandi, you can get Patriot at Alvarado Feed & Seed.
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Yeah, I used to feed Patriot and I was always happy with it. I think I'm going to go back. I switched to Safechoice when I moved to South TX because there was only one feed store within reasonable distance and that's what they carried. That was about the same time Tom Cat was having all of his intestinal trouble so once I switched to Safechoice I stayed on it, even after moving back up here. Just didn't want to change on him. But I don't have Tom, and even if I did I couldn't pay 18/bag. So I think my ponies will be Patriot eaters once again.
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I am paying $15.59 for Safe Choice. My horse is really doing good on it and I don't have to feed as much. If it goes above 17.00 per bag, I will find something else.
I went to get feed yesterday and the Manager of Tractor Supply gave me a discount, $14.00 per bag. I love my Tractor Supply.
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Friend of mine posted all of this on my FB page - been an interesting discussion both here and over there. but another friend of mine had this to say that is diff from what has already been contributed ...
MG and Wendlands also has a 12/8 that is good. The Wendlands feed is called Horse Bloom hi fat. The MG is just called 12/8 as far as I know. I have a 3 yr old filly that is a very hard keeper. She got VERY thin when I sent her off for training and I was afraid I would never get her weight back But since I've gotten her back she has put on so much weight. I fed her the MG 12/8. I can send you pics of before and after if you'd like.
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I tryed the WENDLANDS horse bloom and it smelled like Chemicals? I was not impressed and ended up not switching to it? I guess I am used to alot of Alfalfa in my feed.
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It's been interesting reading all these post. I have fed Stradegy for years and just recently decided to change because of the high price of the feed. I am feeding 11 head (geldings, broodmares, and babies). I feed pellets just because I don't like seeing my grain come out the other end. haha. I found a cheaper horse feed, but it is still pricey. I just wondered if anyone feeds an allstock feed to their horses. The allstock is cheaper 8.50 a bag, but I am torn on whether my mares and foals would do good on it. I do give the horses alfalfa at night and they graze on pasture 24/7.
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Taylors has Safechoice for $9.75 a bag??
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It went up from $12 to $15 around here about 6 months ago. That's why I quit feeding it. I'm now feeding a locally milled pellet that is comparable to Safechoice and only costs me $9.75. Golden Oak Horseman's Pellets milled in DeLeon.
Have been feeding Horsemans Pellets for over a year now and the horses love it. It started out at around $7.75/bag but every time I go buy it which is about ever 3 weeks (25bags) it goes up. Just bought some on Thursday and paid $10.24/bag. Checked with other feed stores that carry it also and they are all higher ($10.65 and $11.25) so I will stick with where I am getting it. Just don't know how much longer I can keep feeding it if it keeps going up cause I am feeding 10 head.
I bought some today at Taylor Feed in Stephenville for $9.75
Which feed store is Taylor's as we will be going to Stephenville this weekend for the barrel race and I could just pick some up while I'm there?
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I quit feeding Horseman's Pellets to my horses a couple of years ago when I had a great horse of Liz Pinkston's in my barn.
Golden Oak doesn't properly clean their magnets on the blades that cut the pellets and I got a sack of feed with metal
shavings in it, AND a used up pellet saw blade! I had gotten a ton of feed there, and was late feeding so grabbed a sack
off the truck and started scooping it out in the feeders, had filled a couple of corner feeders, when I see Liz's good horse
bouncing his head up and down in the bucket, and the end of his nose cut. Upon inspection, I find the saw blade, and then
in the bottom of the sack in the middlings of crumbs in the sack, there's some metal shavings. This happens when the magnets
on the machines that cut the pellets are not cleaned regularly. My client & friend Loreena was here from Utah, saw the entire thing, we loaded up and went back to Deleon ourselves, showed them the situation, and took the evidence with us without so much as an "Im sorry" about it, or let us replace that load. I was spending over $7000 a year at that mill....and some amount of customer satisfaction was in order. I gladly do business elsewhere now. ;))
**adding that I feed a 10/6 milled in West now...horses all doing good, and I add what I want to raise protein if a horse needs it...it is a nice clean pellet with barely any middlings in the bottom of the sack & the nutrition count is good for $8 per sack. My horses that run constantly eat Strategy b/c I do see a real difference by spending a bit extra. They are worth it.
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Taylors has Safechoice for $9.75 a bag??
Not Safechoice, Horseman's pellets
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It went up from $12 to $15 around here about 6 months ago. That's why I quit feeding it. I'm now feeding a locally milled pellet that is comparable to Safechoice and only costs me $9.75. Golden Oak Horseman's Pellets milled in DeLeon.
Have been feeding Horsemans Pellets for over a year now and the horses love it. It started out at around $7.75/bag but every time I go buy it which is about ever 3 weeks (25bags) it goes up. Just bought some on Thursday and paid $10.24/bag. Checked with other feed stores that carry it also and they are all higher ($10.65 and $11.25) so I will stick with where I am getting it. Just don't know how much longer I can keep feeding it if it keeps going up cause I am feeding 10 head.
I bought some today at Taylor Feed in Stephenville for $9.75
Which feed store is Taylor's as we will be going to Stephenville this weekend for the barrel race and I could just pick some up while I'm there?
It's on the Lingleville Hwy. close to the intersection of FM 108
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It went up from $12 to $15 around here about 6 months ago. That's why I quit feeding it. I'm now feeding a locally milled pellet that is comparable to Safechoice and only costs me $9.75. Golden Oak Horseman's Pellets milled in DeLeon.
Have been feeding Horsemans Pellets for over a year now and the horses love it. It started out at around $7.75/bag but every time I go buy it which is about ever 3 weeks (25bags) it goes up. Just bought some on Thursday and paid $10.24/bag. Checked with other feed stores that carry it also and they are all higher ($10.65 and $11.25) so I will stick with where I am getting it. Just don't know how much longer I can keep feeding it if it keeps going up cause I am feeding 10 head.
I bought some today at Taylor Feed in Stephenville for $9.75
Which feed store is Taylor's as we will be going to Stephenville this weekend for the barrel race and I could just pick some up while I'm there?
It's on the Lingleville Hwy. close to the intersection of FM 108
Ok, thanks for the info!!
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It's been interesting reading all these post. I have fed Stradegy for years and just recently decided to change because of the high price of the feed. I am feeding 11 head (geldings, broodmares, and babies). I feed pellets just because I don't like seeing my grain come out the other end. haha. I found a cheaper horse feed, but it is still pricey. I just wondered if anyone feeds an allstock feed to their horses. The allstock is cheaper 8.50 a bag, but I am torn on whether my mares and foals would do good on it. I do give the horses alfalfa at night and they graze on pasture 24/7.
I fed strategey for years also..I too switched about 9 months ago to all stock feed.It is called stock and stable..LOVE IT ! My horses have done great on it.We had one horse that when we bought him he was starved and he now looks like a normal horse..Has put on lots of weight ,feels good,looks great..Not to mention I like the price of this feed..Although ours went up to $9.15 a bag here.Where are you at that your getting it for 8.50
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i also fed safechoice two or three years ago. two of my horses lost weight on it. i switched to horseman edge, loved it and everyone did well, then it started going up. so i went to mg 12/8 loved it also, but now its over 8 dollars a bag , so i am out. we now feed a dry mix from a new mill in brenham. its 7.00 a bag and four of my friends and i split a ton a month....
i only feed a handful to each horse at night just so they can get their salt and minerals ... we feed alfalfa twice a day and have been for a year and its been working out wonderful for me. i was spending 300.00 a month on feed, now i spend 14.00. and i am feeding 9 horses. i have always fed alfalfa one flake a day, but since we have been feeding just alfalfa i think the horses are in great shape...
is there anyone else out there just feeding alfalfa?
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I have been feeding Stock & Stable pellet for the last 9 months and my horses are doing great on it.They look excellent and feel good.Not hot, but have plenty of energy.We only ride them once in a while now and just trail ride now. So I switched them to this.You can also give this to any livestock you have which is nice.Comes in pellet or sweet feed.I was paying 8.25 a bag, now it went up to $9.15 a bag. I use to feed stradegy but got to expensive.
I live in Pittsburg, Texas. I went to the feed store yesterday, and the All Stock has gone up to $9.25. But it is still cheaper than Strategy and the other feed I found. It makes me feel better knowing that your horses have done well on an All Stock.
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I was at Taylors feed store in saturday, safe choice is 14.75 a bag, but they had some other for 10.75 a bag, and it is 12/6.. pellet.. nice feed too!!
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I used safechoice as well until the price hit $15+...did some research and found MG 14-8 Trainers blend. Most feed stores carry/instock MG 12-8 but can get the 14-8 Trainers Blend easy. I liked the 14% protein that safechoice had so i researched the MG feed and found that one. Also the MG has less starch content than the safechoice...so far been happy with it.
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i also fed safechoice two or three years ago. two of my horses lost weight on it. i switched to horseman edge, loved it and everyone did well, then it started going up. so i went to mg 12/8 loved it also, but now its over 8 dollars a bag , so i am out. we now feed a dry mix from a new mill in brenham. its 7.00 a bag and four of my friends and i split a ton a month....
i only feed a handful to each horse at night just so they can get their salt and minerals ... we feed alfalfa twice a day and have been for a year and its been working out wonderful for me. i was spending 300.00 a month on feed, now i spend 14.00. and i am feeding 9 horses. i have always fed alfalfa one flake a day, but since we have been feeding just alfalfa i think the horses are in great shape...
is there anyone else out there just feeding alfalfa?
Me! I was feeding Bluebonnet Intensify (best feed on the market in my opinion) but $16.80 a bag I can't afford. So I now feed alfalfa cubes morning and night and then they have free choice coastal round bale....they look great and seem to feel great! I called the vet before I did this and he said as long as I fed either a little grain or had a good mineral tub to balance out the calcium & phosprhous (since alfalfa is so high in calcium)...he said that was a more natural diet for the horses anyway.
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We use MG 12-8 for the most part and add some alfalfa to the ones that need a 'boost' and are working all the time. I know the 12-8 has gone up some, but I think it is right around $10/bag still.
We are feeding 12 horses/ponies so we only subsidize the ones that are performing. Otherwise the cost would kill us.
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Carolyn O.....have you seen my horses? LOL LOL LOL When Dad passed away my herd all went on a big shock to their diet plan! LOL We fed Strategy because that's all Dad would feed.....but on my budget it, I went and talked to Burge at Jakes.....I have been feeding an All Stock feed for almost a year now and there is not a rib one showing on any of my horses....and they only get grass during the spring/summer months.....I do feed hay in the winter....I just have to balance everything so I can afford it....but I'm currently feeding Wendlend's All Stock pellets and they scarf it up.....not sure exactly how much it is but it's around $9.00 or maybe a little less......my horses seem to be fine on it....keep in mind I don't ride 7 days a week or haul seriously so I know that makes a little impact on how they react but for me, it works.
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This is a little off subject but a friend of mine that lives in Haltom City (Ft Worth) just called freaking out because she went to the feed store to get a roundbale and they want $165/bale!
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This is a little off subject but a friend of mine that lives in Haltom City (Ft Worth) just called freaking out because she went to the feed store to get a roundbale and they want $165/bale!
I know that diesel is high, but that is just sad. I know a lot of people who bale their own hay and it does not cost that much. People screwing the buyer over because they know we need the hay.
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LORD HAVE MERCY I'M GLAD I DON'T GO THROUGH ALL THAT FEEDING THING YOU'LL GO THRU. TAM'ET & I FEED STRAIGHT BARLEY & THEY HAVE A BALE OF COASTAL HAY FREE CHOICES WARS :)
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Yeah, I don't buy hay from the feed store, but I told her to go to a different store and see if she gets the same answer. I know hay is in high demand, but that's ridiculous. She's just a little backyard horse owner, so she really doesn't know any other place to go. And everyone I know is out of hay. Her husband drives a truck for a living and I told her maybe next time he's headed back here from up North with an empty load he should think about stopping and getting them some good hay.
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when I was in Weatherford yesterday at horsemans hay had went up two dollars a bale since last week when I was there...
my dad lives up north & he is a dealer for Nutrena & Safe Choice cost went up $2.68 a bag....
it is getting crazy & with the drought in this area they are charging whatever they want for everything..
have no idea what I will do when I run out of feed or get low this time.... even oats & barley are high....
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I feed Safe and Sound. Its the same thing and pay 13.99. I've tried cheaper nock off feeds but my horse gets hyper on them. Switch back and he goes back to his mellow self. I guess I'll have to work more hours to support my habit
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I bought Safe Choice today at the feed store in Manor,Tx and it was $14.40/bag. I did pay $8 per bale for Coastal hay from a hay dealer a month ago. The hay deal comes down to the old theory of supply and demand. There is a huge demand right now and a short supply so hay dealers are going to sell high and take advantage.
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I just bought grain today and it's gone up $4 a bag since last summer. The way the weather is going I just hope we can find hay to feed. The guy at the feed store said he's buying round bales all over the place and no matter what, they're gone as soon as he gets them.
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I feed the Cowtown 14% protein, I think its a 6% fat? Last time I went to the feed store it was $10.75 a bag. I get mine at Hay and Feed Ranch here in Stephenville.
One of my friends feeds the Allstock by Cowtown and she's had good luck with it, I just have a mare that is a hard keeper and I'm afraid to change her over. Not sure how much it is though?
I also know a girl that feeds her horses calf cubes. They aren't too big so the horses can eat them easy, and her horses do GREAT on it. I'd love to be able to do that....its super cheap. I think she pays like 5 or 6 a bag. I'll have to ask her about that one though, not for sure.
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Which feedstore in Manor?
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There is a lady that just bought these 25 acres, and it wasnt fertilized, right?/ well she found out the feeds stores are selling hay for 140-165 a bale.. so she is selling hers out of the field for 150.00/round bale!!.. and it is not fertilized and it has weeds in it!!
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This is a little off subject but a friend of mine that lives in Haltom City (Ft Worth) just called freaking out because she went to the feed store to get a roundbale and they want $165/bale!
I know that diesel is high, but that is just sad. I know a lot of people who bale their own hay and it does not cost that much. People screwing the buyer over because they know we need the hay.
Okay, I too need hay and can't afford the high prices...but we used to raise hay and there is a LOT more to raising hay than diesel. !st you have fertilizer (and when fuel is high fertilizer is higher) our last load to fertilize 40 acres was $1,900 and that was 6 years ago. Then you have electricity for water my friend who bought our hay field just paid $923 for 1 month. Now you have fuel to run the tractor to swath and then again to bale. Now you have twine or wire or net (none of which is cheap). None of this counts the countless hours working the field to keep it clean and free from weeds and grassburrs. The last year we cut and baled and sold to the public we sold nearly 3,500 bales of hay and after the repairs and upkeep on the equipment...we LOST money. So let's be fair to the farmers out there!
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when I was in Weatherford yesterday at horsemans hay had went up two dollars a bale since last week when I was there...
my dad lives up north & he is a dealer for Nutrena & Safe Choice cost went up $2.68 a bag....
it is getting crazy & with the drought in this area they are charging whatever they want for everything..
have no idea what I will do when I run out of feed or get low this time.... even oats & barley are high....
What really gripes me is the fact that diesel has not gone up and truckers are now charging $4 per mile to haul hay. It is really sad that all of the people that we depend upon to help us feed our animals are now screwing us out of more money because they can!!
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I HAVE A SON DOWN CLOSE TO SAN ANT THAT RAISES COASTAL BUT HE IRROG & FERT. HIS HORSE HAY SALES FOR 7 BUY HE HAS CUSTOMERS DOWN THERE THAT WAIT IN THE FIELDS FOR HIS. HE DOES ROUND BALES FOR HIS CATTLE. A FELLA CLOSE TO HIM IS ROUND BALING BUT HIS BALES ARE SMALLER & HE GETS 75. GIRLS IF ROUND BALES HAVE JOHNSON GRASS & THE HAY IS NICE THE JG WILL NOT HURT A THING. HORSES LIKE IT. BACK IN THE 50's & 60's I BOUGHT JG BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE, POSSIBLY OAT BUT IT WASN'T ALWAYS GOOD. HORSES DO LIKE JG & IF THE HAY IS NICE HAY IT WON'T HURT THEM. WARS ;)
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Dunny will pick through the hay and not eat anything other than the coastal, including the johnson grass. A man that was supposed to be supplying me hay for free since we were making sure that his cows stayed watered, started bringing me hay that had a lot of trash in it. Of course, Dunny would pick through it and not eat anything but what little coastal was in it. He is too picky.
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I'M NOT TALKING TRASH. IF THE HAY IS GOOD & CUT RIGHT THE JOHNSON GRASS WILL BE GOOD. I'VE NEVER SEEN A HORSE THAT DIDN'T LIKE JG. "T" & I JUST BOUGHT SOME FEED FROM RIO V FEED STORE. IT IS A PELLET & THE INGRED ARE GOOD. WE STARTED IT THIS MORN BUT MIX IT WITH BARLEY FOR THE CHANGE. THEY DO REAL WELL ON BARLEY BUT I HAS GONE SKY HIGH, ALSO. THEY LICKED THE BOWL CLEAN THIS MORN. YOU HAVE TO ASK "T" WHAT IT IS CALLED. 16 IS SURE BETTER THAN 24, 26 OR WHATEVER.WARS :)