New Barrel Association

[elliemae2u2]

okay- that sounds jacked up!

Please elaborate!!!  Just what sounds jacked up?  There are lots of horses out there that will never be a 15 or 16 second horse and will never have a chance at these bigger barrel races.  If you have faster horses then you won't bother to show up at these races!

Simply, it depends on the size of the pen and pattern.......The bigger the pen/pattern the longer the time, and the smaller the quicker. 
And HOW would determine who gets to run?  You cannot NOT let the fastest time win. 
If I ran a 16.999 and didn't get the money I'd pretty darn upset.

True, something that needs to be worked out!  It's not a case of determining who gets to run, if you think your horse won't fun faster than a 17 then simply don't enter.  And with the rules/guidelines being outlined upfront, the fact that a 17.000 time starts the winning times, then you shouldn't be upset if you run a 16.999.  It's like these people running in the 17's and say a 17.556 was the last paying spot and you ran a 17.557...you can't be mad that you ran out of the money.  If you keep going by the "fastest time wins and sets the pace" we'll be back in the same boat where all the 15 and 16 second horses show up.  See what I mean??!!!

[elliemae2u2]

Thats the thing tho... if you're starting a new association, the goal would be to get as many places as you could to hold shows for you, and if you restrict it right off the top by arena size, you alienate half or more of your potential clients.  That's where the novice thing comes into play, because if you've lost some of your potential avenues based on arena size, you need to figure out a different way to base your guidelines on. 

This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for!  This is all still in the "thinking" stage.

[ITDASH]

If you run a 17.00 on Diamond W's standard pattern chances are your gonna pull a 1-D check lol wish I had a pocket full of horses that could run a 17 here ...

just thinkin out loud here .. and I think you are in north texas since you posted on the salt creek arena thread .. but if not, then I apologize for assuming

but I think Diamond W is the only arena that can handle a standard pattern ... maybe Stephenville or Graham?

[lilqhgal]

How about a Reverse D deal.  In a normal 3D, a winning time of 15.355 would put 2D for those in the 16.355 and slower, and 3D to 17.355s (if you did single second splits).  But in a REVERSE D setup, everyone runs, and then your winner of the 1D would be the 17.355 and faster....   <..> wait, I'm confusing myself....  :blah: hey it sounded good.

[lilqhgal]

OR, a better idea, would be something like a "STYLE" applied to the class.  So you have your typical 4D or whatever race, but you can also have a "style" where you can pay an extra, oh, $10 entry fee (?) so that when you run, you get pulled against the others who've paid their fees for the class and placed against THEM in addition to the regular 4D runners.  THEN, you all run in the same arenas, and it's an incentive to the producers to offer that "style" or "addition".  Sorta like Calcutta, but with a different name and set of circumstances.

[melaself]

I think the original concept you presented wouldn't work because there is too much opinion involved and that's where you get into trouble. Opinions are like a$$holes...everyone has one. And that's what barrel racing is about...running against nothing but the clock and not having to rely on a bunch of opinionated judges.

But, if you ran it like bracket racing in hot rod classes, it could possibly be feasible. Everyone would declare their run bracket and if they ran faster, they break out and are disqualified. Personally, I like the D's just like they are now. I, too, am only running 17's, but I did make it into the 16's once, so I know that we can do it and possibly even much better. I think I'll stick with the standard races. It gives me something to shoot for.

[Karol]

so whats the incentive in bettering myself or my horse?  (((

I agree...also...doesn't make sense to have a race that starts at a specific time.  JMHO!

[TxBarrels]

Well, I sort of think this is a "good" idea.  I mean, the concept is pretty good.  I, for one, am always striving to be THAT 15 second person.  The one who comes in and blows the doors off.  That said, I do know there are A LOT of people out there that either A)can not afford a knock out horse or B) can not ride a knock out horse.  **Warning** I'm about to say something that could be taken the wrong way, and I do not mean it in a bad way at all...I know lots of women who love to run barrels, but as they are getting up in age..WISDOM, I mean WISDOM...they simply can not ride 1D horses any more, but still love to barrel race.  I do love the idea of having a novice association, but there are horses out there who have won money, but may not anymore, or may still not be a 1D horse.  I disagree with downthealley that said if a horse is at its prime and can't run more than a 17 it should be basically retired.  I understand your feeling, because I'm that way.  I don't want a horse that can't hold its own, but some women out there don't want to ride anything faster.  They are just looking for a place to go to have a good time and are getting tired of donating to the pot only to go home empty handed.  Let's face it, its getting incredibly expensive to haul anywhere anymore, so its really hard on those who want to go to the barrel races to visit with friends and have fun, but never win any money because their horse is too slow.  JMHO, but I think you have a good concept going here, but you have lots of kinks to work out.  I think the 17 second limit will probably not work, but you could definitely come up with another way to keep the big dogs away.  Good luck with this idea!

[elliemae2u2]

OR, a better idea, would be something like a "STYLE" applied to the class.  So you have your typical 4D or whatever race, but you can also have a "style" where you can pay an extra, oh, $10 entry fee (?) so that when you run, you get pulled against the others who've paid their fees for the class and placed against THEM in addition to the regular 4D runners.  THEN, you all run in the same arenas, and it's an incentive to the producers to offer that "style" or "addition".  Sorta like Calcutta, but with a different name and set of circumstances.

I'm confused!

[melaself]

I think she's talking about an extra incentive race added that starts at 17 seconds.

[elliemae2u2]

Well, I sort of think this is a "good" idea.  I mean, the concept is pretty good.  I, for one, am always striving to be THAT 15 second person.  The one who comes in and blows the doors off.  That said, I do know there are A LOT of people out there that either A)can not afford a knock out horse or B) can not ride a knock out horse.  **Warning** I'm about to say something that could be taken the wrong way, and I do not mean it in a bad way at all...I know lots of women who love to run barrels, but as they are getting up in age..WISDOM, I mean WISDOM...they simply can not ride 1D horses any more, but still love to barrel race.  I do love the idea of having a novice association, but there are horses out there who have won money, but may not anymore, or may still not be a 1D horse.  I disagree with downthealley that said if a horse is at its prime and can't run more than a 17 it should be basically retired.  I understand your feeling, because I'm that way.  I don't want a horse that can't hold its own, but some women out there don't want to ride anything faster.  They are just looking for a place to go to have a good time and are getting tired of donating to the pot only to go home empty handed.  Let's face it, its getting incredibly expensive to haul anywhere anymore, so its really hard on those who want to go to the barrel races to visit with friends and have fun, but never win any money because their horse is too slow.  JMHO, but I think you have a good concept going here, but you have lots of kinks to work out.  I think the 17 second limit will probably not work, but you could definitely come up with another way to keep the big dogs away.  Good luck with this idea!

This is exactly what I'm talking about!  I came up with the 17 second rule attemping to discourage the faster runners from this venue.  I've racked my brain for other ideas and haven't come up with anything, yet!  Thanks for the input!

[TxBarrels]

But, if you ran it like bracket racing in hot rod classes, it could possibly be feasible. Everyone would declare their run bracket and if they ran faster, they break out and are disqualified.

I like this idea.  Its sort of like a weight class in boxing.  Hear is what's sad...the D barrel races were designed for this exact reason.  Giving everyone out there a chance at winning.  

I, personally, don't like D races, especially equal payout ones.  I get ticked when I run a slot out of the money, but someone who ran slower takes home a check.  Ooops...I'm gonna get flamed for this aren't I?

[elliemae2u2]

I think she's talking about an extra incentive race added that starts at 17 seconds.

I'd be all for that!  But I think instead of starting a new association you would have to convince the existing ones to add this incentive.

[DOHorsewmn]

Well, I sort of think this is a "good" idea.  I mean, the concept is pretty good.  I, for one, am always striving to be THAT 15 second person.  The one who comes in and blows the doors off.  That said, I do know there are A LOT of people out there that either A)can not afford a knock out horse or B) can not ride a knock out horse.  **Warning** I'm about to say something that could be taken the wrong way, and I do not mean it in a bad way at all...I know lots of women who love to run barrels, but as they are getting up in age..WISDOM, I mean WISDOM...they simply can not ride 1D horses any more, but still love to barrel race.  I do love the idea of having a novice association, but there are horses out there who have won money, but may not anymore, or may still not be a 1D horse.  I disagree with downthealley that said if a horse is at its prime and can't run more than a 17 it should be basically retired.  I understand your feeling, because I'm that way.  I don't want a horse that can't hold its own, but some women out there don't want to ride anything faster.  They are just looking for a place to go to have a good time and are getting tired of donating to the pot only to go home empty handed.  Let's face it, its getting incredibly expensive to haul anywhere anymore, so its really hard on those who want to go to the barrel races to visit with friends and have fun, but never win any money because their horse is too slow.  JMHO, but I think you have a good concept going here, but you have lots of kinks to work out.  I think the 17 second limit will probably not work, but you could definitely come up with another way to keep the big dogs away.  Good luck with this idea!

I totally understand - I am a woman with WISDOM and I know I cannot compete with the girl (women) who come in on a 10,000 - 40,000 horse that is patterned to death (besides I could not ride on that fast!).  I hate "donating" because it is so expensive.  I don't expect to win everytime but to be beaten by 3 seconds almost everytime - really stinks.  I am trying to get her faster but I'm not comfortable and apparently "Novice Rider" classes or Associations are nonexistent anymore.  I would be interested in something like this after the bugs are worked out of course.  

I think if you lay things out upfront and in the open and DONT change things midway, then everyone should know what to expect and if they get ticked oh well...

[cjakerock]

so whats the incentive in bettering myself or my horse?  (((

Exactly my thoughts!