New Barrel Association

[elliemae2u2]

But, if you ran it like bracket racing in hot rod classes, it could possibly be feasible. Everyone would declare their run bracket and if they ran faster, they break out and are disqualified.

I like this idea.  Its sort of like a weight class in boxing.  Hear is what's sad...the D barrel races were designed for this exact reason.  Giving everyone out there a chance at winning.  

I, personally, don't like D races, especially equal payout ones.  I get ticked when I run a slot out of the money, but someone who ran slower takes home a check.  Ooops...I'm gonna get flamed for this aren't I?

Well I'm not gonna "flame" you!  I understand where you are coming from and when I started running barrels a long time ago the "D" formats didn't exist.  But you still had all the same people winning the money!  I personally like the "D" formats but it still gives the advantage to the faster horses and with the half second splits the "slower" horses still never win!

[Downthealley]

Well, I sort of think this is a "good" idea.  I mean, the concept is pretty good.  I, for one, am always striving to be THAT 15 second person.  The one who comes in and blows the doors off.  That said, I do know there are A LOT of people out there that either A)can not afford a knock out horse or B) can not ride a knock out horse.  **Warning** I'm about to say something that could be taken the wrong way, and I do not mean it in a bad way at all...I know lots of women who love to run barrels, but as they are getting up in age..WISDOM, I mean WISDOM...they simply can not ride 1D horses any more, but still love to barrel race.  I do love the idea of having a novice association, but there are horses out there who have won money, but may not anymore, or may still not be a 1D horse.  I disagree with downthealley that said if a horse is at its prime and can't run more than a 17 it should be basically retired.  I understand your feeling, because I'm that way.  I don't want a horse that can't hold its own, but some women out there don't want to ride anything faster.  They are just looking for a place to go to have a good time and are getting tired of donating to the pot only to go home empty handed.  Let's face it, its getting incredibly expensive to haul anywhere anymore, so its really hard on those who want to go to the barrel races to visit with friends and have fun, but never win any money because their horse is too slow.  JMHO, but I think you have a good concept going here, but you have lots of kinks to work out.  I think the 17 second limit will probably not work, but you could definitely come up with another way to keep the big dogs away.  Good luck with this idea!

dont mean to quote the whole post but for the women that dont want to run 1/2/3D horses and just want to run for fun .. then cant they just do exhibitions? I know thats mean and discriminates but I just dont see the reason why there is a need for an association that caters to the "slower" horses. I dont think there is a big want/need for that out there, especially here in Texas where the competition is so high

I personally wouldnt ever run my horse if I knew he didnt have the game .. its not worth it to blow a horse up that doesnt want to run hard/fast enough to make it into the 4D and why would I want to waste my time on a horse that wont get there?

I honestly could just drag up my husbands pick up horses, that the only barrel theyve seen is the rodeo clowns barrel, and take them to one of these barrel races and place ... (zippin flame suit up for this --->) but isnt that what playdays are for? cant these people that want to just barrel race to have fun go to a playday? where the competition isnt as stiff as a D barrel race or rodeo?

[elliemae2u2]

Well, I sort of think this is a "good" idea.  I mean, the concept is pretty good.  I, for one, am always striving to be THAT 15 second person.  The one who comes in and blows the doors off.  That said, I do know there are A LOT of people out there that either A)can not afford a knock out horse or B) can not ride a knock out horse.  **Warning** I'm about to say something that could be taken the wrong way, and I do not mean it in a bad way at all...I know lots of women who love to run barrels, but as they are getting up in age..WISDOM, I mean WISDOM...they simply can not ride 1D horses any more, but still love to barrel race.  I do love the idea of having a novice association, but there are horses out there who have won money, but may not anymore, or may still not be a 1D horse.  I disagree with downthealley that said if a horse is at its prime and can't run more than a 17 it should be basically retired.  I understand your feeling, because I'm that way.  I don't want a horse that can't hold its own, but some women out there don't want to ride anything faster.  They are just looking for a place to go to have a good time and are getting tired of donating to the pot only to go home empty handed.  Let's face it, its getting incredibly expensive to haul anywhere anymore, so its really hard on those who want to go to the barrel races to visit with friends and have fun, but never win any money because their horse is too slow.  JMHO, but I think you have a good concept going here, but you have lots of kinks to work out.  I think the 17 second limit will probably not work, but you could definitely come up with another way to keep the big dogs away.  Good luck with this idea!

I totally understand - I am a woman with WISDOM and I know I cannot compete with the girl (women) who come in on a 10,000 - 40,000 horse that is patterned to death (besides I could not ride on that fast!).  I hate "donating" because it is so expensive.  I don't expect to win everytime but to be beaten by 3 seconds almost everytime - really stinks.  I am trying to get her faster but I'm not comfortable and apparently "Novice Rider" classes or Associations are nonexistent anymore.  I would be interested in something like this after the bugs are worked out of course.  

I think if you lay things out upfront and in the open and DONT change things midway, then everyone should know what to expect and if they get ticked oh well...

YES...you are a woman of wisdom.  You are right on track with what I'm thinking!  This wouldn't be a place for the horses that know and can go "full tilt boogie". 

[melaself]

but isnt that what playdays are for? cant these people that want to just barrel race to have fun go to a playday? where the competition isnt as stiff as a D barrel race or rodeo?

That's what I always thought...the D races were established for those who wanted to compete on a higher level than the playday scene but who didn't want to go the rodeo route.

[lilqhgal]

I agree that there should be something out there IN ADDITION TO the Ds.  That's why I thought of the styles, or brackets like canchasinroper suggested.  I'm trying to think up a way to keep the $ there that's for the D races but also add something to those who are slower.  Wouldn't you rather haul to a place that if you knew you could pay, say, 10 or 20 bucks more per class for the chance at being in a different Bracket if your horse (or you) are a slower competitor?  I don't necessarily think you should be disqualified, but rather, you'd be "bumped out" of your bracket.  So, lets say, you enter a 4D that has a $20 ef.  Winning time runs a 15.899 and you run a 16.910 - you just won 1st in 2D. (in a one sec split, I'm still confused bout the 1 vs 1/2 sec splits but thats for a different thread).  HOWEVER, if you know you're a slower runner (lets say your time for all intense purposes in this race was a 17.850) - obviously you'd be out of the money in the Ds (in a bigger race anyhow).  So if you know about where you run, you pay your Bracket money (or whatever its ended up called) at another $10 bucks.  Now your ef is $30 - the 20 goes to the D purses, and your 10 goes directly to your bracket, which would somehow be very limited to only those who entered it.  So in a class of, oh, say 100 entries, if 10 paid the extra bracket money, you're technically only running against those other 10 girls.  HOWEVER if you break out of your bracket, you just get dropped back into the regular 4d and still get a shot at the rest of the money.  Determining how to bracket it would be the clincher.  Now adding this as an OPTION to a race, vs. starting a whole new association, might be the way to go.  Starting a new association is a big undertaking.

[lilqhgal]

I just dont see the reason why there is a need for an association that caters to the "slower" horses

Which is why I'm leaning toward adding some extra incentive onto the races out there.  We go to the same places, run the same race, and everybody's happy.  How to accomplish that, tho, is the question.

[Downthealley]

cowgirle ... you are correct .. without making the others mad and driving the horse market down, lol   >SHOCKED< :see-ya: :TIGGER: :ROFL2: ::2COOL::

[elliemae2u2]

Well, I sort of think this is a "good" idea.  I mean, the concept is pretty good.  I, for one, am always striving to be THAT 15 second person.  The one who comes in and blows the doors off.  That said, I do know there are A LOT of people out there that either A)can not afford a knock out horse or B) can not ride a knock out horse.  **Warning** I'm about to say something that could be taken the wrong way, and I do not mean it in a bad way at all...I know lots of women who love to run barrels, but as they are getting up in age..WISDOM, I mean WISDOM...they simply can not ride 1D horses any more, but still love to barrel race.  I do love the idea of having a novice association, but there are horses out there who have won money, but may not anymore, or may still not be a 1D horse.  I disagree with downthealley that said if a horse is at its prime and can't run more than a 17 it should be basically retired.  I understand your feeling, because I'm that way.  I don't want a horse that can't hold its own, but some women out there don't want to ride anything faster.  They are just looking for a place to go to have a good time and are getting tired of donating to the pot only to go home empty handed.  Let's face it, its getting incredibly expensive to haul anywhere anymore, so its really hard on those who want to go to the barrel races to visit with friends and have fun, but never win any money because their horse is too slow.  JMHO, but I think you have a good concept going here, but you have lots of kinks to work out.  I think the 17 second limit will probably not work, but you could definitely come up with another way to keep the big dogs away.  Good luck with this idea!

dont mean to quote the whole post but for the women that dont want to run 1/2/3D horses and just want to run for fun .. then cant they just do exhibitions? I know thats mean and discriminates but I just dont see the reason why there is a need for an association that caters to the "slower" horses. I dont think there is a big want/need for that out there, especially here in Texas where the competition is so high

I personally wouldnt ever run my horse if I knew he didnt have the game .. its not worth it to blow a horse up that doesnt want to run hard/fast enough to make it into the 4D and why would I want to waste my time on a horse that wont get there?

I honestly could just drag up my husbands pick up horses, that the only barrel theyve seen is the rodeo clowns barrel, and take them to one of these barrel races and place ... (zippin flame suit up for this --->) but isnt that what playdays are for? cant these people that want to just barrel race to have fun go to a playday? where the competition isnt as stiff as a D barrel race or rodeo?

I understand where you are coming from.  But my horse is a good example, she does want to run and she runs an awesome pattern, she just doesn't have the speed to be up there with the 15/16 second horses.  I can't afford to spend thousands on another horse that could run faster.  And I appreciate your opinion that there is not a need for an association for slower horses, but it's just your opinion.  I wanted to see what everyone thought.  No one should be "blasted" for their opinion.  And personally, I don't want to run at playdays, I want to go to barrel races!!!  I don't know why the slower horses should be left out because they can't compete with the faster ones.  The slower horses deserve their own place...just my opinion!  Not trying to make anyone mad so please don't take it that way!  This is all just a fact finding mission!!! Ok?!

[elliemae2u2]

cowgirle ... you are correct .. without making the others mad and driving the horse market down, lol   >SHOCKED< :see-ya: :TIGGER: :ROFL2: ::2COOL::

I don't see where something like this should make anyone mad, if you have a faster horse you simply don't enter.  And I also don't understand how it would drive the horse market down.  I truly believe there is a market out there for the faster horses for those that can afford one.  But I believe there would be a market for the slower horses as well for those who can't afford the high dollar horses and don't want to compete on the higher levels.  Therefore, generating a different market for the "lower" end horses. And just because these horses cannot compete with the super fast ones doesn't make them any less valuable to someone.  They aren't valuable to those of you who have the high dollar horses, but I tell ya...I wouldn't take a million dollars for my horse!

[Karol]

Before the 4D, 5D or 6D races, Kathy Thornton started up ANHA and South Central Novice Horse Association.  It was a great association, but, after several years more and more people began to "forget" to update their winnings.  People started being dishonest about money won.  It wasn't a pretty site.

You can go to CTBRA and enter their novice classes as long as you fit in the "money won" range.  I have heard that they have changed their rules, but those changes have not been posted yet.

[elliemae2u2]

Before the 4D, 5D or 6D races, Kathy Thornton started up ANHA and South Central Novice Horse Association.  It was a great association, but, after several years more and more people began to "forget" to update their winnings.  People started being dishonest about money won.  It wasn't a pretty site.

You can go to CTBRA and enter their novice classes as long as you fit in the "money won" range.  I have heard that they have changed their rules, but those changes have not been posted yet.

That's to far away from me!  But thanks for the info.  I really didn't want to start a "novice" deal, mainly for the reason you listed.  And frankly, I'm not a novice...I just have a slower horse!

[DOHorsewmn]

Downthealley - it is not that our horses "don't have the game" - it is that maybe they are just slower horses - not all horses are speed demons and not all of us can afford those types of horses.  Some of us possibly can't even ride a horse that fast...  I don't have a problem on a fast horse that is patterned to death but do have a slower time on a horse that requires a lot of placement, etc..  

Exhibitions are not fun as you are not competing against others only yourself.  You won't understand if you have not been where we are.  (no offense intended)  We ALL strive to be that 15 second person as TXBarrels says but unfortunately some of us will NEVER have the funds to purchase that horse.  That doesn't mean that we don't want to be competitive on what we have.  And we ALL make the best run we can possibly make each time.  I think those who don't push are cheating themselves and the horse JMO.  

As far as playdays - I have NO desire to go among the craziness I've been to with playdays.  Kids (and I LOVE KIDS) whose parents are not watching them riding all over the place running into you - by the time they call me (of which it could be 4PM or midnight you never know) I am a nervous wreck so those are definitely out as a regular occurence for most of us ADULT competitors.

I think if it doesn't appeal to some then thats fine - they can continue to do what they are doing now.  I do like WBR idea of 6D, however, when you have a PRO come and smoke everyone then we are RIGHT BACK where we started from not having much of a chance....  JMO

[elliemae2u2]

 /\\  Right on DOHorsewoman!!!

[Barrel Turner 3]

The problem with novice groups are the cheaters. People say they haven't won when they have. Ask Kathy Thornton of the ANHA. She finally quit doing it because of that.

YEP ... she even went to court a few years back over one ...

[Woodys Mama]

what about the association having
1. an open 5 or 6 d with full second splits
2.novice rider or horse class 3 or 4 d
3.youth class 3 or 4 d
4.poles 3 or 4 d with full second splits
5. have a board of directors that has one person from each area to "spot" the cheaters for the novice class
I know when I was growing up my dad HATES barrel racers and thinks its the ruination of a good horse....so he never would have anything in the barn that was a nice speed event horse...only team roping horses...so I had to focus on team roping !
I see both sides, but sometimes there are some people who cant afford the Nicer horses or they are just happy with where they are in their competitive career. I think if this "new association" covered a lot of territory and it had some awesome sponsers to attract a crowd I think it would be a hit.