Clayton (Scamper's Clone)

[lauraSchumann]

Since i do not rely on bloodlines alone to base my decisions on breeding a mare to a stallion....(I do look at bloodlines but I prefer performing stallions with a record of performance) I would never breed to him unless he proves himself in the arena.  I too agree that just because
Scamper did it, does not mean Clayton can....all kinds of factors figured into what made Scamper who he was....and genetics are one thing,
but time and place are another.....jmo.... :yes: :yes:

[candystarbarrels]

I agree Laura. I have seen some really good horses that no one even knows what the bloodlines are. I have one in the back. He is not registered, and we have no idea about bloodlines, but he is all heart. Like my friend says, That horse can't read those papers!!! Of course he does not own any without papers!!!!!!

[lauraSchumann]

Just as an example about what you just mentioned...i have a mare here at the house that belongs to Liz Pinkston...she is a very very
nice mare....no papers and no idea how she is bred, but it doesn't keep her from being a nice one. :cheeze:

[candystarbarrels]

I am 29 years old, and finally have the first 2 horses I have ever owned that are papered. But, I have had some nice horses

[Tamet Gould]

Since i do not rely on bloodlines alone to base my decisions on breeding a mare to a stallion....(I do look at bloodlines but I prefer performing stallions with a record of performance) I would never breed to him unless he proves himself in the arena.  I too agree that just because
Scamper did it, does not mean Clayton can....all kinds of factors figured into what made Scamper who he was....and genetics are one thing,
but time and place are another.....jmo.... :yes: :yes:

Amen, its called epigenetics.   Not only your time and place but the fact remains that we cant truly control genetics becasue anytime we encounter a virus or protozoa it alters our genetics.   Turning them off and on; their preference.   So in reality you arent getting a clone, it isnt truly possible.  The vast majority of our genes are changing to help us live in our enviroment.   Bet they havent told you that, have they?    Nor will they.   To much research money would disappear.

For instance, look at what is happening to our Corn and corn throughout the world.    Did you know that the genetically altered corn that Mansato is trying to force upon everyone is killing the variey of corn in Mexico?    Guess what, it is still happening even though Mexico doesnt buy its seed from the US nor does it allow it down there.   Yet the "bug resistant" Corn that Mansato has designed using a virus is killing our native corns.   Hmmmm why cant they control that?    Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I feel a soapbox coming on....   (XXX) (XXX)  Gotta go.....   (XXX) (XXX)

[lauraSchumann]

Since i do not rely on bloodlines alone to base my decisions on breeding a mare to a stallion....(I do look at bloodlines but I prefer performing stallions with a record of performance) I would never breed to him unless he proves himself in the arena.  I too agree that just because
Scamper did it, does not mean Clayton can....all kinds of factors figured into what made Scamper who he was....and genetics are one thing,
but time and place are another.....jmo.... :yes: :yes:

Amen, its called epigenetics.   Not only your time and place but the fact remains that we cant truly control genetics becasue anytime we encounter a virus or protozoa it alters our genetics.   Turning them off and on; their preference.   So in reality you arent getting a clone, it isnt truly possible.  The vast majority of our genes are changing to help us live in our enviroment.   Bet they havent told you that, have they?    Nor will they.   To much research money would disappear.

For instance, look at what is happening to our Corn and corn throughout the world.    Did you know that the genetically altered corn that Mansato is trying to force upon everyone is killing the variey of corn in Mexico?    Guess what, it is still happening even though Mexico doesnt buy its seed from the US nor does it allow it down there.   Yet the "bug resistant" Corn that Mansato has designed using a virus is killing our native corns.   Hmmmm why cant they control that?    Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I feel a soapbox coming on....   (XXX) (XXX)  Gotta go.....   (XXX) (XXX)

My point exactly described as above!!  Unless you fed exactly what he ate...at exactly what times he ate it, lived exactly in the same living conditions, the same air, the same life at the feed lot, the same, the same, the same....in the same time period....that's ONLY way this horse would be identical.  Because time and place factors into his growth, his abilities, his everything!!
From a selling point of view, no researcher is going to put forth that info----they are going to sell you a "dream"..... :blah:

[melaself]

I personally don't think you can get 100 per cent genetics with clones or embryo transfers either. You have to consider that the blood of the donor mother carrying the baby flows through it's veins. It has to. And that in itself has to affect the genetics of the baby by adding another set of genes into the mix.  Oh it might be close, but it will never be 100 per cent.

[~Kara Elaine~]

i agree with laura... i think every aspect of our life makes us who we are! For an example, who would we be with out our horses? If someone cloned you and took horses completley out of your life then expected you to win the NFR you couldnt do it! Your life experiances are different. The people that taught you or the horses that changed your carrer wouldnt be there. 

[debhorses]

DANG LAURA!!!! i thought u were referring to Jewel instead of Lizzie's horsie   :blah:

[Freckles]

I went to Charmayne's Clinic to watch with my sister and she had Clayton there. I saw him up close and yes he is put together nicely.  :cheeze: :cheeze:

SHe said that she would not compete on him because he would always live in scampers shadow.  :\\(((

[PunkinNMe]

She'd be stupid to compete on him.
There is the possibility that he just won't have the "want to" to run barrels, in which case he'd fail and she wouldn't be able to market him.
What she is selling isn't Clayton, she's selling Scamper.  So she can't really let Clayton do anything . . . hell he might turn out to be an awesome calf horse which would ruin her marketing campaign.

She's doing the smartest thing by breeding him to mares that are proven and "select", which gives her a great chance of being able to sell him later based on his pregeny.

I agree that while he may have been a clone of Scamper's genetics, the environment that Scamper was nurtured (or not) in is what made him the horse he is.  I really don't see him as being the same as Scamper when I look at him, I kinda see him as being close to a son or brother to Scamper that you can breed to.  Like Tamet said, environment alters genetics and I too believe that the recipient mare had to have at least some effect on the embryo's development.  So with that, I tend to think of it as similar to breeding to a son of Scamper.

And for someone like Skillz Schuman who doesn't breed solely on lineage, Clayton is not the way to go.  But there are those of us who breed based solely on the name.  I've seen a son of Frenchman's Guy breeding for like $1000 and he has never done anything.  They don't list any earnings of progeny or the stallion himself.  But folks are breeding to him just because he's a son of Frenchman's Guy.  I would think that those folks will be the types to breed to Clayton.

And when they allow clones into the AQHA, and it's just a matter of time before they do, she'll be able to up his fee even more.

[melaself]

Yep, Punkin, I agree with all you have said  :yes:

[lauraSchumann]

Yes it WOULD be stupid to compete on him but just for imagination purposes only.....imagine IF she did, and imagine IF he made a great one---
then imagine the effect on barrel racing that it would have.....It would provide one of the biggest hooplas in barrel racing history if the fact
that he is a clone was not enough on its own....what a thought...... >CRYING EYES OUT<

[PunkinNMe]

She says she'll haul him to races and "play around with him" and she says that she'll play on the cans at home with him . . .
so if he sucks at it, noone will ever know . . .

But if he excels, we'll hear about it.  You can bet your bottom dollar we'll hear about it even if it's as some back yard jackpot. 

And if he really takes to it at home and when she plays with him . . . I bet she'll change her tune about running him.  she might not go the NFR route with him, but there are so many other options these days that she can take.
Large scale barrel races like WBR and such . . .
Where he can still make a name for himself, without having to try to win 10 NFR championships.

[cold n classy]

All I have to say about it all is Charmayne is a VERRRRY smart woman and knows what she's doing in this deal.  Clayton does look good that's for sure.....and Scamper!!  Man, I've had 2 year olds that don't look as good as he does right now!  :ROFL2:  It's amazing that he is still in that good of shape!  I'm sure he gets the very best of care from her no doubt!  The only thing that makes him look old is the gray in his head!