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Author Topic: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races  (Read 36474 times)

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Offline Mandi

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2005, 03:07:04 PM »
It also says that those entry fees of the people who received NT's will be equally split between all divisions.

I think if it wasn't for sooo many people hitting barrels (for the most part) this payout system would REALLY hurt the 1D riders.

I did a spreadsheet comparison from the Win$More race at Stephenville in March 2005 using the added money they had there and the same entry fees they had.

I came up with the following:

706 runs
$7000 added
$35 entry fee, $26.25 = 75%
29 - 1D
105 - 2D
126 - 3D
117 - 4D
131 - 5D
198 - NT's

As it was paid out there...15 monies per division
1D - $6904.62 (1st paid $1242.83)
2D - $5803.70 (1st paid $1044.67)
3D - $4886.26 (1st paid $879.53)
4D - $4152.30 (1st/2nd tie paid $653.99)
5D - $3601.83 (1st paid $648.33)

Using the new method (as close as I could possibly figure it)
1D - 5 monies - $3185 (1st = approx. $923.65)
2D - 12 monies - $5180 (1st = approx. $1036)
3D - 15 monies - $5731.25 (1st = approx. $1031.63)
4D - 12 monies - $5495 (1st = approx. $1099)
5D - 15 monies - $5862.50 (1st = approx. $1055.25)



If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.

Corky Barder

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2005, 04:32:33 PM »
Mandi,

Your numbers are off  - not by much, but they are off or at least the 1D is, that's the only one I looked at.    We are workin on the draw right now, so I don't have time to completly figure the results but will be able to answer any questions at the Glen Rose race next weekend.


Offline Pam Cantwell

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2005, 04:40:00 PM »
You guys are hurting my brain!  :lalala: rofl
“When the government fears the people, you have liberty.  When the people fear the government, you have tyranny.”  ~Thomas Jefferson.

Offline Mandi

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2005, 04:47:55 PM »
Mandi,

Your numbers are off  - not by much, but they are off or at least the 1D is, that's the only one I looked at.    We are workin on the draw right now, so I don't have time to completly figure the results but will be able to answer any questions at the Glen Rose race next weekend.



I know they are off some. I stated that in my post. I couldn't get them to match penny for penny.

I got all the original #'s from the results posted on the Win$More site.

My numbers were figured as follows:

1D = 75% of $35 ($26.25) x 29 1D runs + 39 x $26.25 (39.6 = 1/5 of NT's, so I rounded to 39) + $1400 (1/5 of added money)
$761.25 + $1023.75 + $1400 = $3185
I figured 1st to pay approx. 29% when paying 5 monies.




Before I continue, please tell me if I am going at this correctly????

If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.

Roadrunner

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2005, 05:56:31 PM »
Just thinking...
Reading about this proposed proportional payout makes me pause.
So, zipping up the flame suit & thinking out loud...
It seems now that a 3D horse will most likely become the high money earner at these races. Maybe I'm still in the "old school" mentality but I believe a horse outrunning 300+ entries should be rewarded for doing so. I'm not berating the 2D, 3D, 4D and so on-it's just that the 1D placing horses are the only ones, in my opinion that earn their position that day. All others are more dependent on that thing we call LUCK. Not saying the 2/3/4/5/D didn't work as hard or deserve it, but something came in to play to determine their placing that day more so than talent, speed or whatever. It is something that no one has any control over. Luck plays a part in every division, but it seems more so after the 1D.
I've heard all the arguments against graduated payout.
The entries would not be as large without the lower Ds entries & so the 1D would not have as much money in the pot. True, but years ago the lower D entries had no opportunity at all to run at the kind of payout available these days.
I know it costs the same to feed, enter & haul the “4D” horse as it does the “1D.” But the 1D horse is at the top of his AND everyone else's game. There are many, many that will never be, can never be a 1D. But that is the beauty of the 4/5D format, there is a place for every one to do the best he can do. And, hopefully get financial reward with the satisfaction of doing your best.
Yes, there are usually less 1D entries than any other division, but generally receive the largest share of the pot. That is self explanatory. The top is always the hardest to achieve yet should be the most sought after. That is why the 1D should be something to aim towards. The 1D winner is the horse that determines where everyone else places. Why would you want to penalize that competitor for being better than the average? What happens when that spectacular run is made, setting it apart from the field & only a few qualify for the 1D. That run will be severely penalized because so few fees will be put in the division.
With this payout, I wonder if some of the top horses will begin to go elsewhere. Remember, the caliber of the 1D determines all other Ds.
I worry that no longer will the goal be to be the fastest but to be lucky enough to fall into that D that the majority of all the entries fell into. Fell into due to that one run in the 1D. And that run probably won't even make the most money that day.
You might think I have these thoughts because I’m a 1D barrel racer and you would be wrong. It would hurt to see a horse/rider combination put together a one in a million run or to have that once in a lifetime horse and not be rewarded for it as much as the team that was “lucky enough to make a mistake” and be the high money earner for the race. I still believe in competition.
However, I applaud Destry and the Winmore crew for trying something new. Barrel racing is evolving. This may be the way of the future. I’m afraid we may lose sight of the purpose of competition, trying to be the best we can be.
Like I said, I was “just thinking.”

Offline Mandi

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2005, 06:08:38 PM »
Here - I think I may have re-figured a little better. Maybe some of what I thought were entries were scratches.




As it was paid out there...15 monies per division
1D - $6904.62 (1st paid $1242.83)
2D - $5803.70 (1st paid $1044.67)
3D - $4886.26 (1st paid $879.53)
4D - $4152.30 (1st/2nd tie paid $653.99)
5D - $3601.83 (1st paid $648.33)

Using the new method (as close as I could possibly figure it)
1D - 5 monies - $3164 (1st = approx. $917.56)
2D - 12 monies - $5159 (1st = approx. $1031.80)
3D - 15 monies - $5710.25 (1st = approx. $1027.85)
4D - 12 monies - $5474 (1st = approx. $1094.80)
5D - 15 monies - $5841.50 (1st = approx. $1051.47)

I think with the way I re-figured it, I am only $0.04 off having the same payout as Stephenville.
If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.

Offline Rita Barnett

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2005, 09:13:59 PM »
Oh me   I kinda like it  its always been said that the lower D's carry the race .   You know I don't care just let me run!  But I hope it shuts some people up.    you know like when the  not so good horses   ( or this is what I've been told)   like mine  out run them  then well I'm just having a bad day or the ground is different or ect.     and I hope this one person shows up to run!!!   Oh I forgot at glen rose her horse is a 2D horse!!  she'll be carring the race!!   rofl  rofl  rofl   just makes my day    ( I'm sorry I'm having a little bit of fun with this )    Doc and a few others know who I talking about!    rofl  rofl

doc o lena bar

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2005, 09:26:05 PM »
Oh me   I kinda like it  its always been said that the lower D's carry the race .   You know I don't care just let me run!  But I hope it shuts some people up.    you know like when the  not so good horses   ( or this is what I've been told)   like mine  out run them  then well I'm just having a bad day or the ground is different or ect.     and I hope this one person shows up to run!!!   Oh I forgot at glen rose her horse is a 2D horse!!  she'll be carring the race!!   rofl  rofl  rofl   just makes my day    ( I'm sorry I'm having a little bit of fun with this )    Doc and a few others know who I talking about!    rofl  rofl

  I know who you are talking about rofl

Offline Capt Jack

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2005, 09:57:48 PM »
Tamet is gonna be mad at you gals talking about her that way rofl
Doc, ginny designed the decal you wanted, so drop by the trailer and see it or I will have to come and look you up and have De$try fuss at you. :-*

Offline Rita Barnett

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2005, 10:00:40 PM »
Doc I think I'm fixin to get my hand slapped again     <EXCUSE ME?>

Offline Done That

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2005, 06:12:54 AM »
I'm sure I will catch it for this one but.............I don't think a 1D horse should be penalized because they are fast.  They take the biggest risk for running those kind of times, as we were reminded by the accident with Rooster,Cleo, etc.  Granted there are more slower horses..........but I think excellence should be rewarded.........not penalized.  JMHO

I try to be very open minded but this is reminding me of ropings where the good ropers are kept away because they rope too well.  The #'s roping.  I guess I am just a little surprised that such an outstanding production company would come up with this.  Maybe I am missing something here.

I think the 4 and 5D's have really put a "shot in the arm" for barrel racing.  It gives everyone a chance to win money......but for a horse to run 1 1/2 to 2 seconds slower and get more money.......whoa........that ain't right.

Offline Done That

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2005, 07:35:03 AM »
Ok, I'm trying to put this in perspective:  Lance Armstrong......you get less because you finished at the head of the pack........the people several hours back.....because there were more of them.......should get more......or

Sorry, Kentucky Derby Winner.......you ran too fast......the other 3 at the end are going to get the big payoff, because they are the majority ..........this is what this new payout is saying to me.  I'm not the only one who feels this way, I'm sure.......but think about this people........it may be popular because their are more below the 1D......but it's not right. 

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2005, 08:00:15 AM »
Ok, I'm trying to put this in perspective:  Lance Armstrong......you get less because you finished at the head of the pack........the people several hours back.....because there were more of them.......should get more......or

Sorry, Kentucky Derby Winner.......you ran too fast......the other 3 at the end are going to get the big payoff, because they are the majority ..........this is what this new payout is saying to me.  I'm not the only one who feels this way, I'm sure.......but think about this people........it may be popular because their are more below the 1D......but it's not right. 
:()&
The more I think about it, the more absurd it seems to me

Offline ITDASH

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2005, 08:07:10 AM »
I think that yes its not goning to make some 1-d people happy BUT at som epoint and time people have to start looking at divisions as seperate races  the 1-d horse didnt out run 300 other horses it out ran the rest of the horses in the 1-d  im riding a 4 d hose sorry but im not there to out run that one d horse  Id like to of course I stive to but in reality  im there running against the other 3 and 4 d horses NOT   the 1-d each D needs to  STAND on its own because numbering barrelracers and horses would be a million times more complicated than a roping and because the novice system was too corrupt to work you have the d system  where the 4 d horse runs with the 4 d horses etc  the only difference being the 1-d horse sets the pace ,you have to BREAK IT OUT each d is a seperate race nand the entry fees for that race should stay in that race  ,now with that said  yes I feel the 1-d could be offered more of the added money if every one else is gettng 1000 added to their d give them 1500 or 2000  that way excellence is still rewarded  they are running at more added money  but not my 4-d entry fee  Im running at that fee
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Offline Done That

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Re: Win More Productions Proportional Payout for Oct & Nov Races
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2005, 08:19:01 AM »
ok, I have to disagree here that you are running against the 4D horses.  Everyone is running against everyone since it is open.  If a 1D horse stumbles, he might be a 3D or 4D.  If a 3D makes a super run....... he might jump up into the 1D.  After the 1D, it is basicly a lottery as to who gets a check.  If they were to make each division seperate, then I could see where you were coming from..... but it is a total open barrel race.  The horses who run the fastest, should get the most money.  That is the way life is.  I just think this is really not a good thing for the competitive spirit.